VMP 312: How Can Veterinary Practice Owners Build A Thriving Culture and Boost Client Conversion

Brandon 00:00:00  It is hard to run a veterinary practice. That is definitely true, and I think it's harder than ever. And what I'm seeing happen a lot is that it tends to lean a little bit more negative when it comes to online content, especially within the TikTok space. And, you know, talking about clients and seeing clients talk about prices. And there's just definitely a lot of negativity out there. And I think it's starting to cast kind of a light around entrepreneurship and practice ownership in a way that it's just really, really hard and it is hard, but it can also be amazing. In today's episode, we have Doctor Keith True and he talks about his journey in ownership of practices. And we also talk about marketing with respect to building amazing culture in your practice. Doctor Keith True, for those of you who don't know, is a successful practice owner. He's been a part of practice turnaround. he's built a de novo practice. He's also acquired a practice two, and he recently just started a new podcast called Break the Leash.

Brandon 00:01:02  But he's a client of mine, and I think he's a really nice guy who has a very cool practice. And, the cool thing that I had a hunch on that Doctor True confirmed wasDoctor True's campaigns are actually the record for best return on investment across all of the portfolio of practices that we manage ads for, and it's significantly higher. It's like three times higher than a normal practice. And I always had a hunch that the culture that you built inside of your practice had more of an impact in your practice, other than just making it a fun place to work. And with talking to Doctor True, that definitely confirmed a lot of things. And so we talk about that practically because there's more impact in building a good culture in your practice than just having a fun place to work. We talk about entrepreneurship and a ton of other really interesting topics. And so I know somebody's going to get something positive out of this, but it was really interesting to hear his insights, because I've never worked in a practice other than just working on marketing for practices.

Brandon 00:02:10  And so the things that I cannot control when it comes to working with clients are the things that we're talking about, and it has just so much insight into it. So definitely be sure to listen to the episode if you like it. Be sure to leave a comment. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to Doctor True's podcast Break the Leash. So here's Doctor True. Well, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast, Doctor True. For people who don't know you. Could you kind of give us a rundown of who you are and how you got started in med?

Dr. Keith 00:02:41  Yeah, absolutely. My name is Doctor Keith True. I am a 2014 graduate from University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine. I, I mean, like a lot of veterinarians got my start in veterinary medicine well before veterinary school. Shadowing. Starting in middle school, realistically. And then, you know, we ended up going through college, going through vet school, and, went and started working for my mentor right out of school that was in Plainfield, Illinois.

Dr. Keith 00:03:14  And then quickly, you know, obviously learned the working in a busy ten doctor practice at the time. you know, I took that job not only because of the mentorship I would get and, you know, working with my mentor, my my mentor. that even before vet school. But that ability to really get into practice ownership within the group of hospitals that we had. Having that mentor, not only from the medical side, but from the entrepreneurship side, was very important to me and allowed me to get my first partnership in a practice as a year out of school. And that really got my, my interest in entrepreneurship and practice. Ownership started to where I was able to start running a practice that we had acquired even just two years out of school. So I got my first partnership, just a sliver of something, just to get it my my taste for ownership started and then was able to take over one of our acquisitions and, and, you know, grew that considerably, you know, learned plenty of lessons along the way, both from failures and successes.

Dr. Keith 00:04:25  But I, you know, through that process took a practice from struggling financially to being a very healthy practice and turning it into a six plus doctor practice. So, you know, fast forward, I'm 12 years into this now, and I've since sold those partnerships and doing my doing my own thing, both in terms of owning and operating practices, but but also building and developing veterinarians into leaders and successful practice owners within our model as well. So, that's the the quick and dirty answer of how I got here. And, you know, also what I'm, what I'm building towards.

Brandon 00:05:04  So very cool. Well, we do your ads for you, by the way. And, one thing that seems like is consistently like a big differentiator in terms of whether practice marketing is going to be successful or not is like the culture inside of the practice. And your practice, like, consistently has higher conversion rates from pretty much. I think yours is actually the best out of 170 practices right now, which is really, really impressive.

Brandon 00:05:34  And so that's partially why I want to talk to you too, because you're doing something that's different and right. And one time we were talking about like, how come your conversion rates are so high in practice when you get a call and you said you have this mentality that what the team knows if we can, we're going to get them in. And I think that's a really big differentiator. It's like simple and weird as that sounds. But I think you have something figured out when it comes to culture and team and things like that. So when you're building up your team, what is it that you're trying to achieve and how did you get there to you? I think that'd be really valuable for people.

Dr. Keith 00:06:14  Yeah, it's a great question. And I think when you're really early into building something like, I really take what you said and think about it, because when you're in the thick of it, you don't always think that you're doing things correctly. I mean, just being fully transparent. But, you know, when other people outside of the organization are noticing it, you do have to it does make you feel good.

Dr. Keith 00:06:38  But when you talk about, you know, what it is about our culture, I think it's going along and being transparent about what your mission is, what your vision is, and what your core values are. And I know that for anybody who's read any business books, that sounds a little, you know, cheesy because it talks about that in every business book. But I think it really is about letting the team know what your mission, what your vision and what your core values are and that you're hiring and retaining around those three things. Before we start every team meeting, which we do host every month, we always start every meeting with, what's our mission? What's our mission? What's our vision, and what are our core values? And that way it's not just something that exists within an employee handbook that nobody ever looks at. I think you should have them on the wall. You should have. They should be visible to everybody within your organization on a daily basis. And you should make that vision and that mission simple enough to where the team can recite it without having to look at the wall or look at the employee handbook in order to do that.

Dr. Keith 00:07:48  Part of our mission and our vision is accessible veterinary care. We've seen it all too often that, you know, we it can be difficult to get into your veterinarian. And I'm not saying that every vet out there needs to be saying yes to every time that that phone rings, but it's how we've built and grown a practice quickly with being just open for a year. With the startup particular, I'm very transparent with the team that I don't want pets that are suffering or need care right away, or clients that want to be seen right away, you know, to ease their own fears. I want them to be able to get them in and how we've trained, how we've talked about that with our team at the front desk is, you know, think about it as your own pet, and you're worried you need that and you want to be seen. Let's get them seen, you know. So, obviously we are a walk in based practice, but we're more so hybrid because we do take appointments.

Dr. Keith 00:08:52  So as long as we're transparent with wait times and you know what we can do, then I think that sets the expectation for the client. But those conversion rates, I think, stemmed directly from our mission and our vision and being accessible and getting people in when they need to be seen. And that's the niche we serve. So I think that's why our conversion rates, you know, are, you know, show that.

Brandon 00:09:18  Yeah, definitely. And I mean, it's it's wild how many practices are just hemorrhaging revenue because their front desk staff, like, doesn't like people. I think like, they like animals. They don't like people. They don't really want to talk to people. But when you're when you're hiring and training, specifically your CSR, I think that's like a very difficult point for for practices. What are some of the things that you implement that make you practice different.

Dr. Keith 00:09:48  I want to do a little transparency on, you know, our practice model. And, you know, I'm a I'm a big ideas guy.

Dr. Keith 00:09:54  I think there's one of those things. And, I think you can have opinions on things, and I think your opinions can be turned, you know, quickly, especially after you start a practice and figure out what works and what doesn't. You just mentioned CSRs. I, you know, with the advent of artificial intelligence and especially some of these AI receptionists and all of that that are available, when we opened up the startup a year ago, I full on open that without with the plan of not having a reception team. Yep. And I, I thought I was very intelligent for doing so. I thought that was going to be the barrier, could be a barrier for getting people in because, you know, the people who answer the phones. The reality is those people are the gatekeepers of your business. You want people who are going to emulate what that mission and vision is. Like I said, to get people in the door. It's not a position in which to look over or just provide as an entry point or entry way into veterinary medicine in general.

Dr. Keith 00:11:01  So, you know, I did not hire a reception team right off the bat. Now, I also, you know, had trialed many AI receptionists at that point, you know, and this is a year ago. So a lot has changed at this point. But I felt very uncomfortable at the time in a startup practice, not knowing when that phone was ringing. So I did have to make a pivot. And, you know, yes, I hired a lot of assistants. I hired, you know, technicians. And we had to quickly go, you know what? I'm not comfortable putting an AI receptionist as the primary line of communication on on day one. So I asked a lot from our assistants and our team, and we did a lot of cross training, but we did bring in people who were confident and comfortable talking on the phone and with client communications. You know, we've since started to onboard people specifically for what we call the client concierge. You know, we want them to not only just be answering phones, but also making the clients feel comfortable when they come in.

Dr. Keith 00:12:06  But, you know, with this particular position, we're looking for people who like people like, yes, that is an important thing, that they're coming to work into a veterinary setting, that they do like animals, but the dogs and the cats don't call the practice looking to get into for an appointment. It's the people, and it's not the animals that are leaving. Reviews as to how good our service was, it's the people. So I always want anybody that we're bringing in from a CSR, CCR, whatever we want to call that position. You know, with us it's that client, concierge representative. We want them to truly be able to sympathize and empathize with people. And it starts with that. You know, if I have somebody who's saying I want, you know, an entryway, I love animals, you know, as as their primary driver to get into this profession or get into this industry. It's not really the criteria that I'm looking for with those people. I want them to be excellent communicators.

Dr. Keith 00:13:11  I want them to be true representatives of what our organization stands for. And it starts with that. So those are the people that that I look for and we look for when we're hiring for that. And it's all about, you know, I don't want to just come off as a people pleaser and saying yes to everything that comes. You know, that that when the phone rings, like, yes, there is a happy medium there, but it it comes down to being able to recognize when somebody needs your help and they need it done soon. that those people are driving that business into your doors.

Brandon 00:13:48  Very cool. And, in particular with with growing team before in your partnerships and then transitioning to practice ownership. has there been any really, really helpful tools or training or is that has it been mostly success through trial and error, like with your receptionist tool?

Dr. Keith 00:14:10  I think I mean, being a year in, it's it comes down to a lot of trial and error. You know, I think and I think that's part of the beauty of independent practice ownership too, is you don't have to go through a chain of command in order to try new things.

Dr. Keith 00:14:26  It's like what worked yesterday might not be what works tomorrow. And you can make that change right off the bat. You know, obviously with appropriate communication with your team and setting expectations. But that's the you know, that's the reality of a startup or of independent practice is you can make a change tomorrow. You can make a change today. You know, it doesn't it doesn't require the sign off of of ten different people in order to make that change.

Brandon 00:14:52  So that's a that's a big strategic advantage for independent practices, because I've worked with corporate groups in the past, and it takes months or years to get something implemented, like if you wanted to try a membership or you wanted to try the discount structure or an offer, it would take six months to get approval on it. And then the markets change, you know, based on what you're seeing. So moving quickly is a really big, important strategy, I think when you're independent and, when it comes to making decisions like that, do you think how what's your cost benefit analysis like, are you just willing to try something, or do you want to make sure that you're not trying too many things, or do you have a philosophy on that at all?

Dr. Keith 00:15:34  I am a glutton for punishment and love change, which I know is not the typical for most people, let alone our industry.

Dr. Keith 00:15:43  If it was up to me, I'd be changed. You know, I feel like I almost tried to change too many things when starting a new practice. it can create some chaos. So I do think you need to have some structured change in there. and I think also it's when you're implementing change, if you're pulling too many levers at once, it's hard to tell what's working and what's not and what's, you know, what's noise. So I've been guilty of making changes to too many changes at once. I will be the first to tell you that. And I don't want to. I also want to be transparent. I don't want to paint a picture like I'm this. This genius that can, you know, make, make practices successful overnight. It comes through trial and error and it comes through successes and failures. And, you know, quite honestly, I've learned way more from my failures than I have from my successes, because it allows you to see what doesn't work, what does work, and be able to learn from that.

Dr. Keith 00:16:43  So yes, in the past I've made too many changes at once, and then I'm not really sure what was beneficial. But when we make logical structure change and pulling maybe one lever at a time, that allows us to see where those changes make sense, and did it make us more profitable? Did it bring in more business? Did it help with our team culture, whatever that might be? I think I personally have to take a step back sometimes in order to make the best decisions of what's going to be good for the business, as opposed to just following my undiagnosed ADHD brain and just trying to flip an industry on its head, for sure.

Brandon 00:17:26  And, I think you have some pretty unique perspectives around the fact that you have started a de novo practice and then you bought an existing practice. What were the biggest surprises in expectation from the first one to the second one?

Dr. Keith 00:17:42  That's a great question. And I mean I'll start off that I my the way I learned about practice ownership, a lot of it came from the acquisition pathway, you know, through my own, my own mentor, having bought many private practices.

Dr. Keith 00:17:59  And this is a individual, this is a private, you know, private individual, not a corporation or anything like that. That was what I was exposed to early on. And you know, where my first partnership, you know, started was in an acquisition and a turnaround practice. And I'm always very transparent with numbers. But that practice, you know, when we bought it was doing probably about a half million dollars in revenue. This was in 2016. You know, fast forward five years, it's a $5.5 million practice with six, you know, six doctors in it. So the, you know, the value creation from something like that is I mean, it is amazing. Like there's no questioning that the value creation that started from a turnaround practice now when I left my partnerships, and when it offered to do things on my own, I was trying to find this unicorn practice to buy that provided an opportunity like that. And it it was difficult, you know, to to find that. And that's why I started with the, the startup.

Dr. Keith 00:19:06  It was just like, all right, you know what? This is where I live. You know, this is where I'm willing to to look. And having exhausted so many different avenues in terms of acquisition, it was like, you know what? I got to just take control and open a practice where there is indeed a need, you know, a shortage of veterinary practices and just start it up, you know? And not only that, but I had never done a true startup by myself. So as somebody who's trying to build more veterinarians as owners, I'm like, I need to learn the and have the reps in something like this too. But I will tell you, like, I was very scared to do that startup because it was outside of what I had done before. I knew we were opening on day one with no revenue. I knew that there was going to be significant build out costs and equipment costs and all of that, and you just see that amount of that loan amount go up and up and up without having a guaranteed revenue on that day you open.

Dr. Keith 00:20:08  It was scary. And that's what I why I've always been so excited about acquisitions is because you buy a business and you have revenue on day one, yes, you're going to have levers you need to pull to grow that business and and make it a better ROI. But at least you have something to start with. Yeah. Going back to the acquisition, I mean, excuse me, going back to the startup, that practice took off way faster than I would have anticipated. And, you know, we're we're a year into it and doing quite well. And, you know, I don't want to say it changes my mind, but it eases my I it won't be the last startup I do. You know, I will say that, the acquisitions, they come with their own skeletons in the closet and their own headaches. it it's a different mindset. I think both provide amazing opportunities for practice ownership. It just depends on the market you're in and what's available there, too. But, yeah, the startup is nice because you set the tone, you set the culture, you set the technology, all of that on day one.

Dr. Keith 00:21:20  And it it can grow quickly. change management is difficult with acquisitions. That's the reality of it. But I I've done it, I've seen it, and being able to do it side by side, real time is a is a perspective that I'm really happy to share with a lot of individuals.

Brandon 00:21:38  Yeah, that's that's really unique. When you were doing your research for locations and things, what were some of the biggest? Because I think location is like the make or break in general. Like if you have a great location, you can get a lot of things wrong and still be okay. But when you were doing research on your location for starting your practice, what were some things that you thought were going to make a big difference but didn't really matter? And then what were some things you wish you would have known going into it?

Dr. Keith 00:22:05  Yeah, I think differentiation from other practices within your area is critical. I would say most practices are appointment based and, you know, have, you know, normal business hours opening around other practices like that, that you can fill a different niche either by extended hours or weekend hours or, you know, having that walk in availability is a great lever and opportunity to pursue that.

Dr. Keith 00:22:35  It's going to help that practice grow quickly. Now, obviously there are areas, you know, I'm in the Chicagoland area and the further west you move that's, you know, that exurban is becoming suburban. There are fewer veterinarians there. So there's there's less local competition no matter how you slice it or dice it. There's there's fewer veterinarians, but there's an increasing population of both people and pets. So those are great opportunities as well. And that's where with the startup, right. Where we picked, there was one veterinarian town. They were booked out eight weeks. There was not a ton of other surrounding veterinarians within a ten minute drive. You know, I mean, there were plenty, you know, in in other areas, but to serve the community where many houses were being built, it was a logical place to open. And, you know, for our first practice in the group, I wanted it to have some actual meaning to my wife and I as to where we're opening to. And it was in a town that we bought our our first single family home in.

Dr. Keith 00:23:42  You know, we had recently moved from the area, you know, close by, but we had moved from the area. But we wanted that first practice to be a practice, that we had an emotional connection to the location. And so, yes, like emotion plays a role in it, but the economics of where we're opening and the clientele that are available to serve needed to play a role in that, too. And that's where we found that that mesh that was going to work best for us.

Brandon 00:24:13  It makes that makes sense. And when you were opening, what were your major concerns, especially with corporate? Or do you think that the corporate marketplace doesn't make as big of a difference as most people talk about when it comes to independent practices?

Dr. Keith 00:24:29  I think it's an opportunity for differentiation. I mean, I, I our practices when I was a partner sold to a corporation in 2020. I was a employee of a partner. I still held my equity with that corporation for the the three years of my employment agreement.

Dr. Keith 00:24:49  I was able to see what it was like inside. And, you know, as a corporate employee or a corporate partner, however you want to phrase it, as well as being independent prior to, I think, I mean, corporations are here to stay. Like, that's that's the reality of the situation. You can be corporate, you know, pro corporate, anti-corporate, whatever it is. The reality is they're here to stay. And I think that being independent does provide an opportunity to differentiate from corporate sites. I mean, there's even websites now that list specifically which hospitals are independently owned versus corporate owned, or at least the best of their ability. And I know that will only continue, corporate practices will continue to exist. I think veterinarians are going to look for other opportunities to be employed outside of a corporate entity. And I think independents has that ability to to differentiate in that, in that aspect, there's going to be obviously other benefits that corporations can offer that independents can't, that, you know, we need to figure out how to level that playing field, you know, both in terms of employment offers, but also in terms of cost of goods and all of that, too, that independents are going to do.

Dr. Keith 00:26:05  But, I mean, we could talk a whole another episode about just that in general. But there's, you know, long answer shortened is the corporate game did not play a factor in me wanting to open. I think it's playing two different games. I think there's opportunity for differentiation. So, you know, honestly, if there was a corporate hospital and I felt a need and even if that location was right next to a corporate entity and I felt that it was a good opportunity, I wouldn't hesitate to open up a practice right nearby. I think that you can still serve clientele well and, and, and still build clientele from that to even with that corporate entity nearby.

Brandon 00:26:48  That makes, makes total sense. And when when you're doing research, especially around like the client demographics and things like that, I know you made your decision based on meaningful location, but were the expectations of the research pretty consistent with, like, what it actually turned out to be, or did you see any major discrepancies there?

Dr. Keith 00:27:09  Can you reframe that question?

Brandon 00:27:10  Yeah.

Brandon 00:27:11  What was the client base that you kind of saw coming into your practice pretty much what you expected it to be, or was it dramatically different from from what you saw?

Dr. Keith 00:27:20  I think that I think when you first open, you get a wide mix of of clients, you know, and yes, there are a veterinarian and client relationship is something that is people hold closely and don't just easily transition from one veterinarian to another unless, you know, say there's a retirement or a closure of a practice, or there was a lapse in communication where they no longer saw eye to eye, whatever that might be. But I think when you open a new practice, you do get people who are already looking for new veterinarians, and whether that's because of the veterinarians fault or, you know, the client's expectations or whatever that might be. So I think the first couple months we saw a wide range of clients, you know, both that, you know, were price shoppers and always looking for the cheaper option. And that's not going to be the case for all of the hospitals.

Dr. Keith 00:28:16  You know, we are accessible, but, you know, we're I wouldn't say we're, you know, a low cost clinic by any means. So we did get a mix of that. You know, now being open for a year and setting what our practice expectations were. I think we are finding what our ideal client avatar is per se. But it at the end of the day, we're still here as a walk in based, you know, walk in based practice that's going to serve the needs of the people that need us. So that does expand what your client avatar is. You know, we want to help pets and we want to help people. And, you know, different types of people are going to need those same day services. So that's what we're here for. But so we do still see a wide array of clientele.

Brandon 00:29:06  Definitely. when it comes to launching your practice, what do you think was most effective, both for the new build and then also for the Novo and getting getting the word out when you were just starting.

Brandon 00:29:18  That you think is probably something that you'll do pretty much every time.

Dr. Keith 00:29:23  I think it comes down to to marketing, which is your your sweet spot there too, you know, and it's not just marketing the day you open. I think it's really marketing, especially especially for the startup marketing before you, before you even open the doors. We didn't start running ads with you guys until I think we were three months in. And I know it's a it's you were.

Brandon 00:29:46  Six months in, actually.

Dr. Keith 00:29:48  You're right. Six months and you're right. So and we were still growing, but my expectation of growth is is pretty big. So I'm like, let's put some money into ads. We can't just hope that we're open and people find out about us. You know, especially if you're not on the most visible street corner. either, you know, ads are going to play a role in that. and I think that's something I would have leveraged sooner. And that's something we did leverage sooner with the with the acquisition.

Dr. Keith 00:30:19  You know, one of the beauties of some of these acquisitions is the owners were not leveraging marketing or not leveraging technology. Their websites were are dated. So there's so many quick levers you can pull that drives business in much faster as well. You know, updating the website. We started running ads on the acquisition almost immediately. We started advertising for new services and new veterinarians that we were bringing into the practice new expanded hours. And, you know, the last you know, we're four months in the last two months have been our our two best months in terms of topline revenue. So it's you know, I can I feel like it can only go up from there. The more we pull on that marketing lever, which you guys are helping with us.

Brandon 00:31:09  Definitely with with scaling that. And typically we like to pre-launch stuff, but like you had a pretty good market need. And so that helped to drive the growth. But it definitely helps to to pre-launch stuff for sure. And when it comes to hiring and acquisitions, that's always the hardest part for scaling and growing.

Brandon 00:31:30  How much do you put into choosing locations based on on that to you? Is that a major consideration for when you're like, are we going to put a practice here? But like, how much are you thinking about that when you're building out your practices.

Dr. Keith 00:31:46  A lot, honestly, and it's a reality of the situation, is you need to have people nearby in order to work your practice, whether it's an acquisition or whether it is a startup. I, you know, I want to build or buy practices and places that people want to live. And that's I mean, that's the reality. You know, I would love to solve the rural veterinary problem. It's not something. And I hope to at some point in time, like I personally see lots of value in rural practices just in terms of like local competition like we just mentioned. But there's it's it's hard to recruit people. And I think a lot of rural veterinarians would agree with me with that. You know, so when you're, when I'm building or buying practices with trying to find a partner in these endeavors in mind, I have to keep in mind about the location and the ability for me to recruit not just veterinarians, but support staff and all of that along with it to that particular area to set up their their life and their career.

Brandon 00:32:55  Yeah, totally makes sense. one thing that we're seeing a lot with more established practices and, I don't know what your take is on this, but having a turnaround practice, I think it probably has some good experience on it. But when it comes to getting compliance for people to keep coming back in. What are some of the biggest things that you think marketing wise practices should be doing to get their existing clients to come in more frequently? And specifically, the reason why I'm asking is it seems like most general practices right now are seeing a drop in number of visits and, retention of clients in general. And so I think that's one really big market area that people are missing on. So what what's your take on that? What do you think has been most effective for for your practice?

Dr. Keith 00:33:44  Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. Obviously being walking in the same day and meeting the need right then and right there, no doubt a huge lever to pull for any practices that are starting up. If you can get them in same day and get them be seen and then obviously deliver phenomenal customer service on top of that.

Dr. Keith 00:34:07  You're going to get clientele in your door, and they're going to come to you for other things, other than just that emergent issue that may have brought them in. I think we also need to look beyond just vaccines and everything and wellness care at this point, too, because that's something that veterinary practices have been built around for decades, basically since the invention of vaccines and veterinary medicine. And there are so many other options that in regards to vaccines, whether that be vaccine clinics or even obviously, we've seen companies like Tractor Supply providing vaccines there too. So it's one of the most shoppable things. So we need to be able to provide value in some other fashion as well. And, you know, whether that's true, you know, offering some like rehab or behavior type of stuff that is not as easily shoppable, that's going to continue that repeat and not going to be solved in one visit. Like those are great options. The other thing that I just feel that we as veterinarians don't leverage nearly enough is dentistry.

Dr. Keith 00:35:19  And I know we've talked about running ads for dentistry as well, but dentistry is literally the only recurrent revenue surgical procedure that exists. And it's something that is directly affects the long term health of your pet, obviously affects our pleasure with dealing with our pet, not having to smell their their stinky breath all the time. But it's it's one of those, you know, from a business side, it's one of our highest profit margin items that we can offer as veterinarians. It is a recurrent revenue that, you know, if we get them on a routine cleaning basis, is going to be good for the business, but it's obviously also good for the pet, too, because it is a necessary thing. And it's it's something that we can take pictures of and show our clientele tangible evidence of, like, look at what it started with and look at what it ended with. And this is the long term benefit that your pet is going to see from this type of procedure. So like those types of things that aren't going to be as shoppable, that have that tangible, feel good, you know, that it's going to have that emotional connection to it.

Dr. Keith 00:36:33  And then we can in turn explain it to the client as to why it's a good thing. Those are services that we really should be leaning into for that repeat visit.

Brandon 00:36:46  Yeah, that totally makes sense. And I never actually thought about that. But it if you can provide a quick win and people can see with their own eyes what the difference is and then see that experience like immediately, it's just so rare to be able to give results like that in any industry. Like, it's like if somebody had a broken pipe and they called the plumber, they fixed it and it's not leaking in their kitchen anymore, basically, like same thing. People are going to be happy and average transactions very high for dentistry too. So that's that's definitely a really good, really, really good category and strategy. And I know a lot of vets just hate dentistry. So that's gotta gotta get into it and gotta get it going.

Dr. Keith 00:37:27  You practice and it comes down to training like we, you know, not every vet school is going to teach dentists dental training you know.

Dr. Keith 00:37:33  So a lot of it is unfortunately on the job and continuing education. But it's it's a lever that I mean I'm I'd love to build a practice just solely on general dentistry, not even just, you know, still sending off the cases that need to be referred. But even, I mean, general dentistry for pets is something that is missing in this, in this market?

Brandon 00:37:57  Definitely. Definitely, definitely. When it comes to differentiation for your practice, in particular, how important do you think it is to like try to apply things that are normal in other industries. So like online booking, the virtual care and things like that. How important do you think that is for an independent practice when it comes to marketing their their practice, especially because you're walk in. So like the people typically just want to book online or do they just want to call in and walk in?

Dr. Keith 00:38:27  I think it just depends. I, you know, we I had run practices before that were strictly walk in, no ability to schedule appointments.

Dr. Keith 00:38:35  And you know, honestly like for me as a practitioner, I like that I can survive the chaos. I like not having. It is an administrative burden or task that needs to be done when it comes to booking, even if you have an online booking tool. Yeah. But I know not every veterinarian wants to operate for that, so either way, veterinarians and the management teams need to make it as easy as possible. Like everybody has the attention span of a goldfish. In today's day and age, we need to make things just super easy. Even from being able to schedule an appointment right from your Google My Business profile by clicking the link and boom, there's the appointment. I picked it and now it's it's booked and in the calendar and already there, like any, any hurdle that prevents them from being able to do it in a couple minutes is going to be something that affects that conversion rate that we talked about before. So go through your own processes of like go ahead and book appointment on your own site.

Dr. Keith 00:39:42  If you're a practice owner or a manager and see how difficult it is, because if you think it's difficult, your clients are going to think it's difficult, and you need to figure out the tools that are going to be necessary to make that process easier.

Brandon 00:39:55  Yeah, that's a really good point. I think having people that are around you from different age demographics to makes a really big difference, because everybody has different skill levels for sure. And so like testing it with eyes that are not used to seeing the problems. It's really, really important.

Dr. Keith 00:40:11  So going to have people call the practice to schedule. And I think that's fine. You know I mean I don't foresee that going away anytime soon. But it's also training your clients to if when you see them and you're like, hey, next time you need, you know, just go right on our website and book or go from our client app, whatever it might be. And, you know, we still always will take appointments by phone, but a lot of times they're calling, they're calling for a more urgent issue.

Dr. Keith 00:40:35  And the answer is always come right on in. We'll take care of you.

Brandon 00:40:39  Yeah, definitely. I remember when people started using Facebook, like consistently and it was funny. It was like 2014 or something, right? Which is like Facebook had been around for a long time, but practices finally started using it more and they were just upset that clients were trying to book appointments on Facebook. Like, how do I turn it off so they can't message me? And so it's just like, don't turn people away where they want to reach you for sure. That's a big one. well, tell me about the podcast that you're starting and and what's what's the goal there with that?

Dr. Keith 00:41:09  Yeah. So, the podcast is called Break the Leash. It's on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and we'll look to expand that. But it's an idea that I've had for a year and a half now, and it took me a year and a half to just finally sit down and record the first one. And whether that's imposter syndrome or just having too much on my plate, I don't know.

Dr. Keith 00:41:32  But either way, it's it's live now. And, you know, yes, I own practices and I do enjoy practicing veterinary medicine, but an aspect of this profession and this industry that I feel like just needs a voice and is Entrepreneurship within the animal health field. And yes, it starts with practice ownership. It's something that I'm very passionate about because I see it as a lever that veterinarians can pull and relatively easily to get into it that can not only expand their capabilities within this profession and with this industry, but also unlock, unlock more happiness, create a more balanced life for themselves, and really build an asset that's going to compound and create wealth for them, for themselves and their families, too, which we don't talk about nearly enough when we're talking about practice ownership for veterinarians. I think when we talk about practice ownership, then the notion or the thought process is that this business is going to consume every waking hour of my life, and that's not something that I want to pursue because of that.

Dr. Keith 00:42:44  When in reality, if you're building a healthy business, it's actually the number one tool that's going to keep you engaged, but also create that freedom. And to me, the hardest part about entrepreneurship is not the day in and day out of the grind. It's making the commitment to yourself that you're going to do it as opposed to just talking about it. And I look at this as like, we graduate vet school, we go work for a practice. You know, maybe we talk about ownership, but at some point. But it just keeps getting pushed down the road. And we have this pathway that's almost been predetermined for us of what veterinary medicine looks like. And I feel like I've fallen into that as well. And I call it break the leash, because at some point you have to be able to make that action a reality. And I just always felt like, you know, there's something that's holding people back and you just need to be able to break past that. And when you are able to do that, you're able to unlock a new challenge, you're able to unlock future happiness and you're able to unlock future earning potential.

Dr. Keith 00:43:54  And I talk about animal health in general. Like, yes, my expertise is in practice, ownership and inspiring the next generation of practice owners, whether that's to do it on their own or whether that's to join our group of hospitals that I'm building independently. But a lot more goes into entrepreneurship than just practice ownership. You're a living example of that. You are an entrepreneur within the animal health industry. You're helping other entrepreneurs unlock their true potential as well. The same can be said for people who are developing software that makes practicing veterinary medicine more enjoyable, or the ability to have more time to communicate and connect with your your human clients. Those are all things that I think we need to highlight when it comes to entrepreneurship, because at the end of the day, we're all working towards a common goal within this industry. It's to make animals lives healthier and better, but also to make the people that own those animals lives better and easier and more enjoyable. So I want to bring together not just people who have done it successfully, but people who are on that edge of entrepreneurship and just inspire them in the slightest to make that leap.

Dr. Keith 00:45:15  And I talked about it in my first episode, is if you're staring into the abyss of entrepreneurship, my job with this podcast is to give you that push off the edge and provide you the confidence and the support along the way to make a career out of entrepreneurship and doing cool, exciting and fun things within this profession.

Brandon 00:45:36  100%. Yeah, I think it's really, really interesting because I see kind of two different camps of practice owners that we work with. One is like they own it and they love it and they have fun. And there's really not any rules like it's you can make whatever you want to. And so it's fun and happy and I'm there's always hard things like it's not just rainbows and sunshine, but they're great culture and practice. They're fun to connect with. And you know, they're having a good time while they're building something. And then there's the other ones that are like, they've been in it for 30 years and they're burned out. And it's just like everybody in the practice feels it.

Brandon 00:46:13  And it doesn't have to be that way. You can make the rules that you want to when you're building it, for sure. So I think there's a huge need for that, kind of like, hey, it can be whatever you want it to be. You don't just have to go and grind for 30 years and then be burnt out and just want to. I just want out. And so sometimes from these vets have on their practice forever and they're, you know, tired rightfully so I understand it's it's hard but it can be fun. And also it it's definitely, I think the, the way to to go make it however you want it to be. There's a book called Anything You Want by, I can't remember the author now, but it's basically like you're starting a business. You can make it fun or you can make it terrible. It's your choice for sure. and that's that's.

Dr. Keith 00:47:00  I couldn't agree more. I mean, I yes, I love, I love owning a veterinary practice, but I also got into veterinary practice ownership to set a tone and set an example for what I truly define my business as is people and leadership development.

Dr. Keith 00:47:18  For those that own veterinary practices. I needed to have a platform in which to launch that doing surgery. I love doing surgery, you know, working inside a practice every single day. Like it? It is not exactly what I want to be doing every single hour, but having conversations with you about getting other people to start the process of practice ownership, and even doing the nitty gritty of finding those opportunities for people and seeing people being able to unlock their true potential as a veterinarian and a business owner like that is the stuff that gets me excited and gets me waking up every morning and like, it still feels like a little bit of a side hustle, you know, within my own organization at this point in time. But it is really where I find the most joy and what I'm creating for myself and for my family as well. You know, and it's it is self-serving in the sense that that's what is engaging to me within this industry. But it's also something where I'm helping veterinarians as well. And I find that very rewarding.

Dr. Keith 00:48:31  And like, yes, pet owners are still my clients, but I look at the veterinarians and the teams that see my vision and and my mission as my clients as well. And when I left my my corporate practices, that was really my target client. And, it's it's still in the process. Like, obviously there's still days where I am laying face first on the floor, questioning my decisions.

Brandon 00:49:01  It's everybody there every I'll do it anyway.

Dr. Keith 00:49:04  Right. Like, I, I don't just want to sit here and paint entrepreneurship as this. Like pie in the sky. Like easiest cake type of thing. Like, there are real stresses that come along with it. But at the end of the day, the only person that I have to answer to, is is myself and my wife and and what's important and what's needed for our family. And I think there's something beautiful to be said about that, no matter what the stress that comes along with it, you know? So for sure.

Brandon 00:49:33  Well, I also like that you're going after being profitable to is like the goal and financial security, which its profitability is like an unnatural state for any business as it grows, if it is left to its own devices, it will become unprofitable.

Brandon 00:49:46  So like it's unnatural to be profitable. So you have to go after making sure that you're you're growing in a way that's smart too. So I think that's awesome.

Dr. Keith 00:49:54  If you can't make money, then you can't pay your teams. You can't pay yourself and actually become a charity at that point. And there's a time and a place to be a charity. But when it comes to supporting other people's lives, you need that profit.

Brandon 00:50:06  Absolutely. Very cool. Well, we'll be sure to link to it, but it's, just podcast is on Spotify and iTunes, so it's unleashed. break the leash. Break the leash. Thank you. Break the leash. Awesome. Thank you so much, Doctor True. Appreciate the conversation. And, congrats on your practices.

Dr. Keith 00:50:29  Thank you very much for having me. And thanks for all the work that you do as well.

Brandon 00:50:33  Of course.