VMP 292: Is Your Veterinary Practice Forgettable? Danielle Lambert on How To Create Build A Great Brand

Brandon Breshears 00:00:01  Welcome to the Veterinary Marketing Podcast, where it's all about how to attract, engage and retain clients to your veterinary practice using digital marketing. My name is Brandon Breshears. I hope you're having a wonderful day. Today's episode we have a very special guest. It is Danielle Lambert. Danielle in the podcast a bunch of times you've been around veterinary marketing for any amount of time. You definitely know Danielle. In today's episode, we do have really deep dive into branding. That is her specialty and she is really, really great at it. This is definitely an aspect of digital marketing that is not my strength. I'm a direct response person. I love direct response marketing, running ads and all of that stuff. So the the strategy and approach that she takes to branding is truly top notch. And it's been incredible to see the practices that she's been working with. So today's episode, we do deep dive into branding. We talk about just a tremendous amount of really applicable and useful insights that she brings. And so I'm really thankful that she was on the podcast, and I know that this is going to be a tremendous value for you, so be sure to listen all the way through.

Brandon Breshears 00:01:06  If you ever have any feedback, let me know. And without further ado, here's Danielle. All right. Well, thank you so much, Danielle, for being on the podcast. You're the first guest ever, so it's always exciting to have you back on.

Danielle Lambert 00:01:19  Oh repeat offender I love that. For me, you.

Brandon Breshears 00:01:21  Were the first one ever on the podcast though, which.

Danielle Lambert 00:01:23  I can't believe that is that I didn't realize that. Oh my gosh, we're og.

Brandon Breshears 00:01:28  OG I know exactly og well, so you are I think one of I, I love your perspective when it comes to branding and also in particular how you're applying branding in practices, because I think a lot of people look at brand and they kind of just think it's like a logo and maybe a catchphrase, but for everybody, can we just talk about what brand is to you as like kind of a starting point and then kind of work out from there?

Danielle Lambert 00:01:57  It's everything. you know. Like it really? At the end of the day.

Danielle Lambert 00:02:02  Brand to me is what people feel when they interact with you. It's what they remember. It's like how they identify that they are the right fit for you. It's all of those kind of intangible things. And like from the consumer perspective, I think that's what brand is from the perspective of a business owner startup founder. Brand is really your like North Star. That is your guiding light in terms of decision making. As you are building your business, growing your business, it helps you really filter the choices that you're making. And as your business grows and expand. I really think that brand the way that I do brand, it also helps your team to feel empowered to keep things again in line with your vision as you grow and scale. So it's really it's so big at the end of the day. The way that I look at it. But that's my mini answer.

Brandon Breshears 00:03:01  That totally makes sense. And, I had a guy named Christo on the podcast and he said, like, if if Nike built a veterinary practice, what would that look like? And thinking like, it's not just the logo on the website.

Brandon Breshears 00:03:14  And I think that's the trap that a lot of practices fall into is they spend a lot of time just building the logo. And then when you go into the practice, it's like the brand is general private practice and it's like you have a feel and a smell and a look and exactly right. So how do you think about that? Like, I mean, even more in-depth because I see the things that you do, which is crazy, like amazing just details. But the entire experience like how how much should people apply brand to like the pens at the front desk and like that, that kind of stuff. Like, what do you think about that?

Danielle Lambert 00:03:49  Yeah, it's so funny because I, just visited a startup clinic that I am working on in new Jersey called Bark Veterinary Services and Crimson. The owner, she handed me a chapstick that is branded as Bark Ave Chapstick. And I was like, we've got all out. So that's the thing is, like, it can be down to those nitty gritty, like nitty gritty.

Danielle Lambert 00:04:13  There we go. Details when you are, you know, talking about like the visual side of things, you can get really specific. Like we will design literal wallpapers for veterinary clinics. so that it is, you know, going to match what you see on their website and on their Instagram. But I really think that when it comes to like, oh, what should I focus on? What should I do? How all out should I go? The visuals really come second. When you work with my agency, the Scout Group, we really start with strategy first, and the most important thing that somebody really needs to get clear on is what problem they're solving and how they solve that problem in a unique way, and then who? They solve that problem for. And I don't mean just like your dog needs to get neutered and I neutered dogs. Like, that's like going on a dating app and being like, you're single, I'm single. I want to get married. Like, that's not what I mean.

Danielle Lambert 00:05:09  You have to go really, really deep with that stuff. and I think at the end of the day, that is the number one thing that as a business owner, whether you are doing a startup veterinary clinic, you have an existing clinic or you're out there trying to maybe do a personal brand and cell C, you really need to know those things. What problem do I solve? How do I solve it differently than other people? I don't really like to say competition. And then like, you know, who am I solving that problem for? And that's where you can get really specific. but a lot of veterinary people get scared of that because it means you have to throw out a lot of people pleasing tendencies.

Brandon Breshears 00:05:47  Absolutely. I think that is a I don't know why I never thought about that, but that is a brilliant way to approach it when you're thinking about types of problems, like people. Yeah. What are some examples? I think like people need examples of this.

Danielle Lambert 00:06:02  Yeah. So and this is something that, one of my favorite brand books is called obsessed.

Danielle Lambert 00:06:09  It's by the woman who owns, Red antler, which is a, agency that did, like, all these really big brands like Casper and, you know, like, Allbirds like these really big, like, millennial brands, right? And she puts it as like this in her book, she, she talks about putting it like to figure out what your problem is. You have to really act like a toddler and do that. Like, but why but why but why but why question that your toddler would ask you from the back seat. And I really, really love that. So if somebody is like, oh, I don't know what problem I really solve at a deep level, think about this like, say you sell mentorship coaching for veterinary hospitals, right? And you're like, okay. Why does that matter? Right. Toddler in the backseat. Why? Why? If you think about something like that, it matters. Because at the end of the day, if you don't mentor team members, you're not going to retain them, right? and you're also not going to have them feel empowered and they're not going to be at the top of their game, like all of those types of things.

Danielle Lambert 00:07:16  And you could ask like, okay, why does that matter? Okay. And go like a little bit deeper and really kind of say like it could be things like, ooh, I'm going to cost myself more in the end because I am, you know, going to be trying to recruit doctors all the time and not retaining them. It could be, oh, these doctors aren't going to be really skilled. And, you know, I won't be able to ever get out of my practice because they're not going to know how to do what I do, all of those things. Then you could go even a level deeper with it and say, okay, why does all of that matter? And this is where you could get like a little bit deep and it might be like, oh, because my legacy is really important. I want to have an impact on the next generation, and I want to make sure that, you know, we don't end up with a bunch of doctors that are afraid to do surgery.

Danielle Lambert 00:08:05  Like, I really want to have a good impact on this next gen and empower them. And that's like really deep. And if you push that even further, why does that matter? It really just gets to that human thing of like, because we're all going to die, right? And like, I really like that exercise. Like, and I just want to give credit where credit is due because the way she outlined that, I was like, that's the exact way to outline it. Again, that book is called obsessed, and I really think that's how you dig into those, like really deep problems, okay, that you're solving for your ideal person, right? So you have to really look at it and keep picking at it, picking at it, picking at it. And then that's where you get the juicy stuff. And I think that's so important because now instead of just being like, hey, Hi. You want some mentorship? Coaching? You instead are going to say like, hey, do you want to leave a legacy behind? You know, like that's a lot more powerful in terms of somebody being like, oh, I want that, right? Like, that's what it's all about.

Brandon Breshears 00:09:05  That totally makes sense. When when you're thinking about this problem and I like I don't think most people even think about solving a problem for their clients. They're like, we're open and we have these things available. Exactly. This is what we got. Like, I hope people come. Exactly. Do you think it's more beneficial to focus on, like your offering or just differences, or is there a balance between that?

Danielle Lambert 00:09:30  And I think that before you figure out what you're offering is, you better know what your differentiators are. Right. So you might kind of do this work alongside like these three questions of what problem do I solve? How do I solve it differently. And who do I solve it for? Those three things. At the end of the day, they are very they have to kind of work together as you figure them out. Right? So if you were like, oh, okay, I am trying to kind of figure out what makes me different, let's say. Right. And so like let's go with that, like mentorship consulting example.

Danielle Lambert 00:10:10  Right. You really are talking about this like legacy impact, all of that. That means that your offering is also something that might kind of get into some deeper, like personal development work for the actual person that's doing it, like mentoring the mentor, so to speak. Right? So I think you want to kind of think about these things kind of all together versus like separately, right? I think it kind of they have to kind of work together. It's like a tricky one when I'm helping people work through this. Like, I will do private strategy days with people and we'll spend four hours like having this conversation. And sometimes we have to, like, go in circles, go in circles, go in circles. And then you start to see like, oh, this is how the pattern lines up.

Brandon Breshears 00:10:56  Totally. That that makes sense. And I think thinking about it, this perspective helps you to get an actual differentiator, right? Like saying we care more or we like we do all these.

Danielle Lambert 00:11:05  Things pet like family. Yeah.

Brandon Breshears 00:11:07  But like what would actually show that and why is that important? And what are you doing that's actually conveying and proving that you're doing that rather than just saying it massively.

Danielle Lambert 00:11:19  And that's a big thing. Like I talk a lot about creating like no BBS brands because I hate a BS brand that I feel like it's just all fluff and nothing to back it. Right. So, you know, you'll see something like a target go and do you know all this like paraphernalia for Pride Month and they're going to sell all this pride merch, right? But then they won't actually back that community when like rubber meets the road. And I think that's BS. And so for me like the kind of brands that I like to create are ones that really are going to back up that message, right? Like think of how many apartment buildings you see that open up. And it's like luxury apartments, right? Like we see that all the time. Luxury apartment. Every apartment I see that opens where I live in Worcester, Massachusetts, is a luxury apartment.

Danielle Lambert 00:12:06  That is not the accurate. Literally, literally. And here's the thing is like that, it's it starts to be nothing, right? I lived in an apartment when I was in Orange County. There was almost $4,000 a month that marketed itself as luxury, and it had like a TV in the pool and like a gym that was nicer than the Equinox next door. Okay, that was luxury. but that being said, they marketed it as luxury. And then the concierge was terrible all the time. Like I had, like, aunts in my closet and they didn't come get the aunts for like, a week. I, you know, I was going crazy, like spraying the ants with, you know, Clorox or whatever. And it's like, that isn't backing up what you're claiming. So at the end of the day, it's like you want to differentiate yourself so that you aren't just another, oh, this is luxury. This is luxury. Like, no it's not. You also want to back it up because if somebody is spending money with you, this is where bad reviews are born.

Danielle Lambert 00:12:59  If you set an expectation and you do not meet that expectation. This is where we have a disconnect and we have bad reviews. This also is really true for employer brand, because if you set that expectation with your employees like that, you are this progressive practice and you you are going to treat everybody so well. Bah bah bah bah bah bah. And then when again rubber meets the road, you're like, oh, I can't really, you know, actually pay you a living wage, stuff like that. Again, we're marketing RBS and, and it's, it's really easy to do that. There's plenty of huge brands in the veterinary industry that will market RBS all day. And it's like the very corporate thing to do, like we're owned by billionaires, but we care, right? And it's just RBS at the end of the day. And that's that's not the kind of brand that I like to build. I really like to build something that you are going to back up, because that's how you save money in the long run.

Danielle Lambert 00:13:52  By investing time and effort into this upfront long term, you are saving yourself in terms of client retention, team member retention, you know, just headaches overall.

Brandon Breshears 00:14:04  Definitely. Yeah. And I mean there's there's ways to convey. And then actually like I think acting on like what you're saying what your, your core values are is the way that you're going to actually prove that you're different.

Danielle Lambert 00:14:16  Oh 150% like I actually push my clients when I'm working with people really in depth. Like long term either if we've done actual brand strategy for them or if they're in my mastermind, the long Game, we really go deep and with core values. I like to actually push it even further to a brand promise, because I find a lot of times core values, it's like integrity, authenticity, you know, like whatever. And that's great. But what does that mean in action? Right. Yeah. And so really, at the end of the day, I like to have a really clear brand promise. And like a brand promise is a little bit more actionable.

Danielle Lambert 00:14:53  It's something like, you know, I think of that bark at veterinary services that I was talking about their brand promise off the top of my head. But like it's something along the line of we go the extra mile, right? And it's unique to their branding and their whole vibe if you see it. But it also is really a mantra for like team members when they're making decisions for, you know, the leadership, when they're making decisions. It's something that really is just like more actionable and like ingrained in there than the traditional just like generic core values. I like to distill it down and be like, okay, what does that actually mean?

Brandon Breshears 00:15:27  And yeah, totally. And then it's easy to convey to employees so that they can like, act it out rather than they don't know what authenticity. Like it means something different to everybody. So that.

Danielle Lambert 00:15:34  150%. Right. Like if you're just like, we're authentic, like, okay.

Brandon Breshears 00:15:39  I'm having a terrible day, I'm gonna yell at.

Danielle Lambert 00:15:41  It.

Brandon Breshears 00:15:42  Yes, exactly.

Danielle Lambert 00:15:43  Exactly right. Like that. That really, at the end of the day, can go a little bit rogue. And I think when it's something that is more specific and more tangible to people, then they're able to actually embody it. And that is so critical if you're trying to scale to multiple practice sites. I think that people really need to know what you stand for. I would argue one of the only brands I see do a really good job of this in veterinary medicine, at least at the outset, was vet veterinary emergency group. Like they really indoctrinated their people for lack of better words. Like there are people that will be like, that's a cult, but that is really good at the end of the day for a brand. You want your team members to be so like clear on what you stand for and so bought in. But then what gets tricky? And I see this with brands as they grow. A lot of times it gets hard to maintain it. It's why I'm not a huge fan of these, like private equity backed, venture capital backed brands because they grow too fast and it's hard to maintain these claims.

Danielle Lambert 00:16:53  It's hard to continue to empower people to do the things that you set out to do. but that's a whole separate rant that I could go on.

Brandon Breshears 00:17:01  It's super interesting. I think edge is still doing a really good job. As much as they have scaled, like I, I don't know what's going on internally or anything, but just from like they're competing in every single market that I'm working in and they're they're doing a good job with their stuff. And like at scale, I can only imagine.

Danielle Lambert 00:17:17  They are a case study and why employer brand matters so much. They did exactly what I would have done. And they they right there. First couple of hires were all my personal brand clients, like people like Doctor Tanisha Crocker, like all these people that had big audiences. And I was like, that is so smart. Like, they really knew how to, like, come in and and establish an employer brand. Have these people act as like ambassadors. But the thing is, I'm actually working with an independently owned veterinary practice right now.

Danielle Lambert 00:17:47  That's an ER. And so they really deal with a lot of competition from both Veg and Blue Pearl nearby for employees. Right. And so that's been a really interesting project to kind of say, oh, how do we create an employer brand that is differentiated from that. Right. And the take we're kind of going with on it, just to kind of give some inside scoop here is, you know, with veg, they really push this narrative of your superhero. We're kind of going very antihero with it, because there's definitely a veterinary professional that, really resonates with that. You're a superhero message, but there are also veterinary professionals that that gives them the ick. And they're like, no, I don't like that. So that's why you want to know who is your dream client, but also who's that dream team member? Right. And kind of know that like psychology for them. And again, the problem that you're solving for them. Right. So there might be a team member out there that they see veg and they're like, that's a cult.

Danielle Lambert 00:18:47  I'm not a superhero. That's weird. Right? They might be very turned off by the messaging because the messaging is so strong. You can swoop in and say something different. And I think that's why it's so important to kind of wrap your head around that whole, what problem do I solve? Who do I solve it for, and how do I do it differently for both? Again, clients and team members is so important.

Brandon Breshears 00:19:11  Definitely. that totally makes sense. one thing that I was thinking about as you were talking about this was, I think a lot of times, especially with like, paid advertising, like I do, it's pretty easy to identify what needs to be done on an ongoing basis. But I've never actually asked somebody in branding, what do you have to do on an ongoing basis, like to make sure that you're hitting your brand targets? And like, I think a lot of people say, okay, I'm going to set this up once we're going to design the logo with the tagline, and then it just runs right.

Brandon Breshears 00:19:39  So what are like the ongoing branding activities that people need.

Danielle Lambert 00:19:43  To be.

Brandon Breshears 00:19:44  Doing?

Danielle Lambert 00:19:44  That's a really good question. So one of the big reasons that we launched our mastermind, the long game, was because I would have people come to the snap group and they would spend 15, 20 or $30,000 on a brand package with us. And then crickets. Like, I would never see anything used ever again. Right. And so that's really why I started this mastermind, where I could kind of check in with people, you know, at really regular touch points, kind of act as a fractional chief brand officer with them. And we could do this ongoing work. And the ongoing work looks like a couple of things, because when you are the founder of a brand and you are really the steward of that brand, you need to, you know, I joke all the time, like, you can't just be an exam room three for the next three years and never come out and look at the big picture.

Danielle Lambert 00:20:36  Right. We need to work on the business, not just in it. So in terms of some of the, like the general upkeep things, I think a lot of it actually comes back to good messaging. So you need to know what your messaging is. And by messaging I mean, yes, things like a tagline and those like key little slogans that you use, but also messaging in terms of like brand vocabulary and, and just terms that you use. All of that stuff is really, really important because it helps to kind of keep a consistent message going out. And in today's world where we're all scrolling through our phones, people forget things so fast. Like, you have to keep the message on brand. And where I see a lot of my founders struggle is as they start to delegate, they might, you know, hire a social media manager or like this marketing director that's going to do emails. And all of a sudden that that whole intent, it goes away. Like all that messaging, it goes away.

Danielle Lambert 00:21:38  So instead of having like the really unique message that we had, all of a sudden we're like, just saying the same stuff. Right. So that is probably the biggest thing that I see that needs to kind of get worked on overall. The other really big thing that I find is that we always kind of need to think of like, what's next? What's next, right? And so for a lot of brands, they might have, you know, like a good Instagram account or a good Facebook account, but like, where are you going next? Okay. Because if you have other big goals, we need to kind of look at like what platforms could we use to achieve those goals. Right. So a lot of my clients are working on things like YouTube right now. then I would say maybe the other thing that there's so many nitpicky things, a lot of it really a lot of this has to do with training your staff and creating like SOPs around brand like, how do we talk about this? What do we do? So same kind of thing.

Danielle Lambert 00:22:42  Like maybe your team puts together like an offer that they want to push. Is it actually on brand. Is it actually something that makes sense. Is it something that we want to do right. Or maybe you're going to do an event. Again, it's about putting that filter on and being like, why does this event make sense for us? Who should we be collaborating with? What should we partner with? What other local businesses? So that's really the ongoing work is just, you know, you're out there, you're hustle and you're marketing, you're creating new offers, you're selling, but are you always stopping and putting the brand lens back over it because like, it comes down to everything to like what you're on hold. Music is at your practice. There's so many little nitty gritty things. So those are a couple of things that I would say that I would be looking at, like, what are your marketing efforts looking like? what is the messaging look like? Is it consistent everywhere? What offers events partnerships are you doing to promote your business and how do they make sense again, for bringing in that dream client or that dream team member? And how do they make sense in terms of like the business that you're really trying to build and a business that you're going to feel lucky to own in the end? Because that's always my goal with people.

Brandon Breshears 00:23:56  That totally makes sense. And I see as you're talking about that with the people that set it up and then nothing happens. I think like ongoing support and ongoing, basically engagement, making sure that you're helping to get the work done and implemented is so important. There's this one practice, like back in 2017 that I was working with, that was just down the street from my house. And, he spent he had hired this agency that was out of New York to do like a brand package for him for like 70,000 bucks. Like, it was nuts at the time. I couldn't believe it. But, like, they had the logos and everything, but they just. It didn't make the brand happen and I was like a complete waste of money. They shut down after a year.

Danielle Lambert 00:24:37  No, it doesn't make. That's that's why the way that we are delivering. Like, I've really leveled up our deliverables recently because I want to make sure, again, that we're establishing, like, SOPs, training materials for whoever you're handing this off to.

Danielle Lambert 00:24:52  Right. So, like, when I deliver something to somebody, like a messaging package, it literally is like, like, you know, probably like 20 different phrases that you use. It's like description of like, when do you use these phrases in terms of the client journey? Are you using these phrases like on your website first impressions, are you using them like in your newsletter? Like more experienced delivery? Are you using them later on in the client journey to like build community? Like we get really nitty gritty and same thing with like the visuals. I'm really not even emphasizing the visual side of brand because as much as it is my deep, deep obsession, if we don't start with strategy, there's the visuals are pointless, but we have to have the same SOPs for your visuals because you might invest all this in like a beautiful logo and like we might create other assets for you like illustrations, iconography. I've seen clients that I literally am like, we hired a illustrator who does illustrations for J.

Danielle Lambert 00:25:49  Crew to make illustrations for you, and now your social media manager is using illustrations from Canva. Yeah. Or like, you know, we picked out all these fonts for you and these colors for you, and now you're throwing other fonts and colors into the scheme and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, you know, I don't want to like, completely stifle the creativity of the people that you bring in. But again, brand is like that. You know, it's a North Star for a leader, but it's a filter for a team member. And it needs to go through that filter every single time and make sure, hey, is this actually on brand? So that's another big the the visual is visuals. Like my mastermind members, I include like some design additional design stuff with them because inevitably they need something else, right? It's there's always more once you kind of if you get into design, it's a little addictive.

Brandon Breshears 00:26:43  Yeah, definitely.

Brandon Breshears 00:26:43  Well, I follow the clients that you're working with, and it's immediately recognizable because it looks so different. And,

Danielle Lambert 00:26:49  Right.

Brandon Breshears 00:26:49  No.

Danielle Lambert 00:26:50  It's usually.

Brandon Breshears 00:26:51  Exactly. I can see I'm like, okay, I recognize this. Is this one okay? It's Danielle's client. Yeah.

Brandon Breshears 00:26:57  So, like.

Brandon Breshears 00:26:58  Totally, I, I get that and I see that, one thing and I think this is probably even more important now with kind of like, I coming out and being used all the time. I think everything is starting to really sound the same.

Danielle Lambert 00:27:11  Oh my gosh.

Brandon Breshears 00:27:12  Yeah. So I think differentiation like it's super easy if you have like a grid of like 20 things and everything is the same, but one is different, it's easy to pick out the difference versus finding similarities between things. So I think that is even more.

Brandon Breshears 00:27:25  Important.

Danielle Lambert 00:27:25  100%, like if you're going to use something like a ChatGPT and you're going to say, hey, give me a marketing schedule for my veterinary clinic, right? It's going to be like post about National Squirrel Day, post about flea and tick prevention.

Danielle Lambert 00:27:37  Like it's going to be all that generic stuff that like, nobody's going to care about. You need to make people care and evoke like an emotional response. And that's the kind of thing that you do when you really know who your dream client is, you know how to speak to them on that deep level. And so what's really great about the brand work that I really teach people to do or do for them is like, I'm now giving you instructions that you could also give to a ChatGPT and say, hey, this is our brand voice. It is sassy and fun and playful and like, these are the words that we use. And like we don't say, you know, you know, we don't say something like fur, baby, we don't say that. We say you're, you know, like your bestie. We call pets besties. Right. Like, you have to tell it that if you tell it all that it can do a much better job over time. but I love ChatGPT and things like that for like the structure it can provide, but its creativity absolutely sucks.

Danielle Lambert 00:28:37  So like, you have to come in with the creativity. And so again, whether you're training a team member or a chatbot to do something for you, coming in and having, you know, the creative work done by an actual human professional at first is a good place to start.

Brandon Breshears 00:28:55  I totally agree. And as people use it more and more, it's like everybody's using it now. You can immediately spot emails that are written by it, and it just is now in the. It worked for a little bit, but now it's not so good. one thing I'm really interested to see, because I know that, like, I'll work with the practice that's like, say in, like Midwest somewhere, right? And they want to do they're like, we want to attract really high quality clients. They want to spend a lot of money. They're not really doing anything different. So like they're asking me to make magic happen. But a question that I have for you is how? How early should people be talking to you? Especially with like, brand? Like, let's say I wanted to create the Ritz-Carlton, but I'm in Grangeville, Idaho, right? And there's one practice and 3500 people, so like, it's not feasible.

Brandon Breshears 00:29:41  So.

Danielle Lambert 00:29:43  I really like to say that I genuinely should be the first person that you talk to. It's why I actually have a deal with provide where if you use my affiliate link to secure your loan through provide, I give you $1,000 credit toward working with me because like, the first things you should be doing are like getting that money and talking to me because we're going to really talk about, like, if I work with you on a high level, I am going to say, okay, we're going to look at like demographic analysis, right? So my husband's economics consultant has access to all sorts of data. I've been talking to Isaiah Douglas with pinpoint about like the stuff that he does. Yeah. Whatever it is, I'm going to use real data to be like, okay, this is the kind of person, like get a profile of who lives here, okay? Because if we want to do Ritz-Carlton brand, we need to have Ritz Carlton customer, or we have to create something that's such a destination that maybe somebody would go there.

Danielle Lambert 00:30:40  Maybe it's some sort of like rehab center for pets, you know.

Brandon Breshears 00:30:43  Like, yeah.

Danielle Lambert 00:30:46  You know, whatever. So I, I think that's really I like to talk to people so early and often because I really at the end of the day, I'm going to help guide you on decisions that are going to affect literally everything you do from like the location you build to, like how many exam rooms are in that space, like what the waiting room is like. If there is a waiting room. Like, all of these kinds of decisions are so impacted by brand. When you do brand as in-depth as I do. So I'm like, please come to me early. I tell people like, we're birthing a baby. Come to me at least nine months before you think you're opening, because also you're never opening the date you thought you were.

Brandon Breshears 00:31:26  Yeah, exactly. I think that's really, really wise. when when people have an established practice, how much do you think they should be focusing on their ideal client versus what exists around them?

Danielle Lambert 00:31:41  Oh, I think that's a really good question.

Danielle Lambert 00:31:43  I really think that you should be as picky as you can until you tap that out. so get like because I think to establish like real raving fans, you want to be really specific about who you serve and serve them in a really specific way. And that's how you get people having an experience that's remarkable. And when something is remarkable, they go and they talk about it, right. Yeah. And so you want to get people in like with the practices that I work with. we like to literally start like a wait list Before you're even open. Right. So that bark at veterinary services. It's a lease build. It's in a little plaza, you know, next to like a gym and a pearl vision and a restaurant, whatever. We have window cleans up with a QR code that says, hey, you're going to get $50 toward your first exam. if you get on this list and we're nurturing that list and talking to them because we want the people that are like, so involved that they are like picking out the, you know, the lighting and like, oh, I like this light or oh, I like this flooring.

Danielle Lambert 00:32:54  Like people that are so involved in this whole process. Those are the people that are going to then go tell their friends like, oh, I went to this practice and it was gorgeous and I helped pick the lights. No big deal, you know? So I think you want to be really picky at first. And then at the end of the day, hopefully your dream client, there's enough of them that it's sustainable for your business. But if it does hit a point where we're like, oh, maybe we need to reevaluate that. And I think for sure going into like the economy that we're currently in. I think you want to like, be realistic and take a zoom out and say, like, okay, who's really in this community? and, you know, like, break it down. Like, what's the household income? Like, what's their spending look like? And get more specific on it. and and yeah, over time you might need to adjust. Moral of the story. But I think in the beginning, a big mistake I actually see people make, whether it's startup practices or I really see it with consultants, is they are they're too thirsty.

Danielle Lambert 00:33:55  In the beginning, they're like anybody that shows up, anybody that wants to buy something from me, anybody that wants me to be their consultant. Right. And really, that's how you attract people that I call them energy sucking demons. It's like the Dementors and Harry Potter, and they're just going to suck your will to live. And when someone is sucking your energy and distracting you from your vision, you are never going to create a business that you feel lucky to own. So you have to have the confidence to know who your dream client is. Really focus on them in the beginning, because otherwise you're going to be all over the place. Complete chaos.

Brandon Breshears 00:34:32  That makes total sense. But in in line with that, knowing who you don't want is like an absolute. We don't want these types of clients not making like a judgment on them, but like, hey, it's not a good fit for you. How much do you think is like, okay, we're gonna attract these people, but here's what we stand against.

Brandon Breshears 00:34:47  Like, how how should people balance that?

Danielle Lambert 00:34:50  Yeah, I think it's a really I think the biggest question that veterinarians, especially with like when we talk about like a veterinarian that owns a practice, the biggest thing people don't want to talk about is who.

Danielle Lambert 00:35:00  Don't we want coming.

Danielle Lambert 00:35:01  Here beyond just like, oh, people that are rude to us, right? Like people will talk about that when we get into other stuff. It can be a little bit messy. And, and, and people are like, oh, you know, like this is just for, you know, rich people or this is just for this person or Pah pah pah. I really am somebody that I think there's such an abundant need for veterinary care in the world, that there it doesn't disservice to somebody to try to be everything to them. You really want to get picky. and I think at the end of the day, in terms of really, you know, like, am I being too picky? Am I repelling the wrong people? Like you, you need to think about things that might feel a little uncomfortable.

Danielle Lambert 00:35:48  And like I said, it's it's about throwing the people pleasing out. Right. I've had to do this in my own business. Okay. I had to get really real with the fact that, like, I don't really like every single person in the veterinary industry. Just because you're a veterinary professional doesn't mean we're going to click. And if I'm going to help you at a really high level, we need to be like same, same on some level. We have to like be vibing Okay. Yeah. And so I have to be really, really, really polarizing in my messaging because if you, you know, believe, like, don't want to pay your team a living wage and you come to me and you want me to market you as this great employer. This is going to be, again, like the energy sucking demon, right? I'm like, oh God, this is awful for me. So I really think like, it's a very uncomfortable process to be completely honest with people. like with yourself, I mean, about who you really do and do not want to serve, but you have to do it.

Danielle Lambert 00:36:52  And I think you have to realize, like, you might not like, I have a, I have a client that they really do want to work with somebody that's willing to go above and beyond for their pets. But and they do charge higher prices than other clinics in the area, but they are open to doing like payment options, you know, with like a vet billing or something like that. So remember that just because you want to really go all out, you can think about ways of like, how do I make this accessible? So I think that's an important thing to remember.

Brandon Breshears 00:37:27  Totally, totally make sense. so one thing that I was wondering about and you have launched this recently. can you tell us about your upcoming, your new list that you have and all the cool stuff that you got coming out the list?

Danielle Lambert 00:37:43  Okay. Well, this actually kind of gets to who knowing my dream clients. Right? And so I have dream clients that show up and they're like, yes, Danielle, I'm ready to go all in.

Danielle Lambert 00:37:52  I can pay you 50 grand in full. Let's do the mastermind. And I want a whole design package. Right. I have clients like that, and that's awesome. Like, I love being able to serve that person. But I know not everybody has the budget for, like, a $25,000 mastermind. That might not be where they're at, right? However, I really, at the end of the day, I am somebody who likes to put this information out, right? And I want to help people because there might be a dream client for me that they're not at that point in their journey yet, but they're going to be they're going to have that kind of, you know, like, I want to invest in you long term. I'm playing a long game myself. Right. And I want to make sure that you have the best information as you can in the beginning, so that ultimately, when you do launch your business, whether it's that startup practice, that key business, you really are going to have everything that you need that it's going to do well.

Danielle Lambert 00:38:49  And then hopefully, you know, I'll be totally transparent. I hope you come to me and buy that brand package, like let's go. Like, I love I love that, right. So the Lucky List is really about helping people to get that initial clarity on what their no BS brand is, right? Like, what's your edge? Those things that I was talking about today in terms of, you know, like what problem do you solve? Who do you solve it for? How do you do it differently. It's about giving people, you know. I give them like a 23 page book that breaks that down with like journal prompt questions and everything. So you could really work through the process, just like I do with my high end clients that are working with me at a high end level. So it is like a juicy little book. So that's what the lucky list is about, is it's about kind of giving you the stuff to get going. And then because I do really believe brand is a long game.

Danielle Lambert 00:39:38  And the way I look at brand is so robust and intense, what we're going to be doing is we're going to be dropping quarterly, different podcast seasons that are going to be a private podcast that do a deep dive on something like how to build your brand as a personal founder, or how to do a employer brand that people can't resist, right? Like really doing these different seasons. And then there's also going to be a newsletter aspect to kind of more so show like the behind the scenes. I really like to be transparent about how I'm building my own business, the brands that I'm working on. Like, like stuff I've shared with you today. Like, I'm a pretty open book. And my clients that come to me. You know, sometimes we have to be a little top secret, but I, you know, like, once they can be public, they like it. it's always a benefit of working with me is I'm going to tell everybody about you, too. And so I really, at the end of the day, want to kind of share more of that behind the scenes with the lucky list.

Danielle Lambert 00:40:34  So yeah, the lucky list is literally just going to be a couple bucks a month. Like right now I'm launching it and it's 2.99 a month right now, $2.99. Like when I said to 99, people are so used to me being expensive, they thought $299.

Brandon Breshears 00:40:48  Yeah.

Danielle Lambert 00:40:49  And I was like, no, no, no. And my team was like, Daniel, why are we doing this? And I was like, no, because I really want those people that have been following me and want to go deeper on this, but just haven't had the budget. I really want to have a space for them, like genuinely. So that is what the lucky list is about. I am going to be bumping up that price. it is going to be going up. So by the time this is out, it might be a couple bucks more a month, but my aim is to keep it literally under $10 a month. and I am going to give people that are listening to this a free month.

Danielle Lambert 00:41:24  So if you go to join the lucky list and use code, Brandon, you're going to get your first month free. So join the lucky list and the code will be Brandon. And you can get that for free for your first month. So even if you're like, I heard her on this podcast, I like some of what she said. I still don't trust her. You're maybe like a little bit of a skittish German Shepherd and you're like, I don't know. That way you can test it out and see, like what? You know what I'm about, get more information, and I know it's going to be so juicy that you're like, I'm going to stay. So that's what the lucky List is really about in a nutshell.

Brandon Breshears 00:42:00  That's awesome. I love it because there's just so much content out there. Also, you have historically produced so much content, especially on Instagram. It's like, oh my goodness, I don't know how you do that because it is so much work. And,

Danielle Lambert 00:42:12  I think I'm trying to get off that hamster wheel, man.

Danielle Lambert 00:42:14  That's like, I'll be transparent to like. And I'm I'm going to talk about this. That's a big reason why I'm doing this list is I have an autoimmune disease that I manage. Like I cannot show up consistently on social the way that I always could, you know, the vim and the vigor of like a 27 year old, like. No. Also like I'm married, I like my husband. I like my life. I want to like, enjoy it. You know, I have hustle, hustle, hustle my butt off. I girlboss my way into an autoimmune disease and now I'm really like, hey, I want to have a little bit more space to, you know, create content. And yeah, and this is probably really woo woo. But like, you're from Southern California, I energetically it feels crappy when you give people free, free, free, free forever. And you're like, am I not worth 2.99 a month to you? You know what I mean? Like there's something about that that just it feels draining and I want to kind of revamp that.

Danielle Lambert 00:43:13  So yeah, put a ton of free content out. I'm still going to have free content like on my blog if you're on my like general newsletter. if you go to Danielle K Lambert Comm, that's my main website. Now, I've like taken a step back from like if you're OG and, you know stout school. My educational stuff is on Danielle lambert.com now. So there'll be free stuff over there. But like the stuff that's really in depth that shows my like real opinions, that shows my real process. I it's going to be on the lucky list and plus it's going to be like more organized. So you're not like, you know, scrounging around Instagram, trying to find everything. Like it will be more clear for you.

Brandon Breshears 00:43:51  I totally, totally love that. And it's interesting you say that because I've done free trainings in the past. I don't do free trainings anymore because when people sign up, they don't take it. And even when people do pay for it, only about 50% actually consume the content.

Brandon Breshears 00:44:03  And I want you to take it. And I think having buy in for it is going to help you to pay attention to it.

Danielle Lambert 00:44:08  And 150% right. Like, I'm doing a challenge right now that I've done as a free challenge in the past. And it's a little bit more robust this time. And I was like, it's 299. Like, it just feels better. So I think that it's really fair when you've, like, paid your dues to kind of say, hey, like if you want to kind of continue this conversation, keep following me. Get on the lucky list. I'll be there. I think that's.

Brandon Breshears 00:44:31  Awesome. Yeah, totally, totally makes sense. And I think also it's going to force you to actually pay attention to it, which is helpful because there's just.

Danielle Lambert 00:44:38  So.

Brandon Breshears 00:44:38  Much out there.

Danielle Lambert 00:44:39  Trust me, as somebody that mostly works with high end clients, I love how they show up. My high end clients show up ready. They implement. They like really, really.

Danielle Lambert 00:44:50  It's it's it's gratifying for me. It lights me up that they are they implement like the idea. Right. And that they really take stuff and run with it. That's what gives me joy in the world and purpose. I feel no purpose. If you're like, just consuming my stuff on Instagram and liking it and not doing anything that's not fun for me. So yeah, that joined the lucky list. If you're like, okay, I'm ready to actually pay attention. Danielle.

Brandon Breshears 00:45:16  Yeah. And implement. Exactly.

Danielle Lambert 00:45:17  Exactly.

Brandon Breshears 00:45:19  Well, let's let's finish off with just a couple things. So give me your top three things that practices need to stop doing right away. And then one thing that you think everybody should do. okay. Three things that like, let's take three things off their plate and give them one thing to do.

Danielle Lambert 00:45:34  Okay. All right. Stop putting paw prints in every single logo. Or like, a whole illustration. And every single logo. Every logo does not need 17 things in it.

Danielle Lambert 00:45:45  Please stop doing that. to stop trying to be for everybody. You are going to drive yourself insane. And also, there's no money in the messy middle. Like you want people to love you or hate you. That's really how the world works and how you're going to make money. and three, I would also say stop treating marketing and brand as an afterthought. They are core critical parts of your business. I know I'm singing your song, Brandon. Like it's not an afterthought. Like this is not, you know, something that you're maybe going to do. Remember that? Like knowing your brand is going to be that filter for your team, that North Star for you. So stop ignoring the fact that you got to address this stuff.

Brandon Breshears 00:46:28  Okay, cool. And what's one thing you think everybody should start doing?

Danielle Lambert 00:46:31  Ooh, if I had one thing that I would love everybody to start doing, I really would say share more of your actual opinions on things. I think people are very scared to do that.

Danielle Lambert 00:46:44  They like to, again, stay very like safe. And you don't have to come off as sassy and edgy as I will in my content. But say what you think, because that's how you get people that filter again, like love me or hate me, but there's no money in the messy middle is like a quote that I live by.

Brandon Breshears 00:47:00  Awesome, I love it! Thank you so much Danielle. I really appreciate it and I'm excited. I'm going to join the lucky list.

Danielle Lambert 00:47:08  Awesome. Thank you.

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